Midnight Masquerade
(What? A masquerade is a kind of a ball!)
Last night, around 11 PM, just as Ezra was finally convincing me that it was time to stop frittering away my precious sleeping hours and get into bed, the phone rang. "Who could be calling us this late?" Ezra wondered as he went to pick up the phone (of course, the portable phone that is supposed to live in our bedroom was nowhere near its cradle). Moments later I heard his returning footsteps, followed by, "Robbie? It's Rabbi V."
Considering my own procrastination in this area, I can't complain that it took him this long to return our call from Saturday night. Since we were both tired, we briefly considered asking him to schedule a group phone call for later in the week. We quickly and wisely concluded that we'd better take the opportunity presented and so within a few moments were we each on an extension and thus began our "theoretical discussion of halachic issues relating to fertility treatments."
The main thing that we took away from this phone call is that Rabbi V is a fairly practical and straightforward person. We told him how long we'd been trying to get me pregnant, and that I'd already had bloodwork indicating PCOS. He asked our ages and about my cycles. (It took a few minutes of back and forth for him to finally get that I don't have cycles.) He referred to sex as "lovemaking," which is more euphemistic than my prefered term of "intercourse" (or, well..."sex") but still far better than the dreaded "relations," which usually makes me wonder why my second cousins once removed need to be involved in our fertility adventures.
On more than one occasion Rabbi V stated that "we follow the doctors" when it comes to questions of which tests to perform before or during treatments. This was a major relief because I am just not comfortable taking anythign stronger than my current metformin without first verifying that Ezra is at least contributing his half to the cause. We discussed semen analysis specifically (though still in theoretical terms), and the rabbi ran down a hierarchical list of methods of procuring a sample. Apparently tops on the list is "collection condom with a hole." Next comes collection condom without a hole, followed by pulling out (yes! the rabbi actually said "pulling out!") and ejaculating into a cup. If the doctor is still not down with that option, then it's permitted to obtain a sample without intercourse but still "with the partner in the style of lovemaking." (I won't promise that this is an exact quote, but it's close.) All the way at the end of the list, apparently to be resorted too only if the wife is niddah, is masturbating alone, but even there should be an attempt to procure the sample without "manual masturbation" and without viewing pornography.
I wonder if a few artfully posed shots of myself would count as "pornography."
We also asked Rabbi V about his general views on donor egg and gestational surrogacy. (Silly idealistic me refuses to even consider that something may be wrong with Ezra's sperm, let alone the idea that something could be so wrong with them that a doctor would suggest donor sperm.) After reminding us that such questions would probably not arise, in the practical sense, for a long time (if ever), Rabbi V stated that there are many opinions permitting both of these options. Good enough for us, for now...all I was looking for was an assurance that he wasn't the "no donors, no surrogates, not ever" type.
General conclusion - we're going to work with Rabbi V. Which means it's time to bring our donations to his communal organization up to date...and to come up with a better alias for him. Any suggestions?
(Oh, and I'm still looking for design help...)
Labels: Judaism
Wow. Our rabbi only gave us two options (one from the top of that hierarchy, and one from the bottom)... not sure if he recognized that we were way too impatient to deal with this, or if he's just a little more liberal. I'm also not sure what in the heck "without manual masturbation" is supposed to mean. Using toes? Um... just by thinking? Does that work for men? :)
Regardless, I know the matter-of-fact approach went a long way to making me feel comfortable, and I hope it does for you too. I also very much like the sound of "we follow the doctors" -- that's a very promising sign for any questions that come up in the future!
If I can make a practical suggestion, you might want to get a couple extra of those condoms so he can try it on, on another day. The fit can be kind of weird, I guess because they're designed for medical purposes, rather than comfort like the ones at the drugstore. You might also want to ask the doctor's office if you can bring in the sample on any day you successfully collect it, rather than scheduling it for a particular date and time. No point in performance pressure and unfamiliarity making this any more difficult.
Also, this method is only going to work if you live close enough to get the sample to the office in time... I've heard of people renting a hotel room that morning (or for the whole night before), but I wouldn't assume you need to go that far unless Rabbi V says so.
And try not to worry too much about losing part of the sample. First of all, as long as the doctor knows you're using this method, he'll expect that. Second of all, this is not your last chance for a SA. If it seems like there might be a problem, the doctor will almost certainly have you repeat the test without the condom. And any time they do an IUI or IVF, they also run a mini-analysis.
My goodness, that was a lot of unsolicited advice. Please disregard any part that was inapplicable, unnecessary, or otherwise annoying. Persephone over and out.
Congratulations! You've found a Rabbi and can now move on!!!!
You'll understand that I have no advice for you. ;-)
"with the partner in the style of lovemaking."
I'm not sure why, but I can't stop giggling every time I read that sentence!
Very glad to hear that you're happy with Rabbi V.
I feel the same way about the use of "relations" to denote sexual intercourse! Too funny. Also, the rav we went to for these issues, who is very black hat but also known for being lenient, said no way to masturbation of any kind, we had to use a condom but that we did not have to poke a hole in the condom.
I'm glad that Rabbi V did not veto DE or DS right off the bat. I wonder, though, if it really came down to that, if he would give you a psak or if he would refer you to someone else. That is often a test of where a rav stands on an issue.
Oh, I forgot -- I wanted to reiterate some of what Persephone said and add a bit too. You get the condoms from your clinic, because they are special medical condoms, and be forewarned -- they look like they were made for elves! I'm serious, they are TINY! I was worried we were going to strangulate my poor DH's pecker. They are extremely difficult to put on and take a lot of practice. Definitely get extras and practice on another day when you are not stressed out and in a hurry.
persephone - Advice is always welcome! Well, always, until I say otherwise. But for now, consider your advice welcome.
Prop - Next step is our first RE appointment, in about one week and two hours. I expect that following that we'll have a fairly decent battery of tests. Since my cycles are almost never spontaneous, we should be able to plan around the back-and-forth with rabbi and doctor, and not end up wasting a cycle while we debate methodology.
wessel - If we ever get to the point of needing DE, DS, or GS, we're going to plot out our questions very carefully before asking any rabbi, and then keep them in as theoretical terms as possible at first, following which we we tag "this year" or somesuch onto every single question, because damned if I'm going to be locked into a negative psak when I know there are other (valid) opinions out there.
Speak up!
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